1 00:00:23,269 --> 00:00:09,120 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:30,029 --> 00:00:25,830 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:32,130 --> 00:00:30,039 for the 27th of October 2012 Richard 4 00:00:34,700 --> 00:00:32,140 Saunders here with you from the Bay Area 5 00:00:37,290 --> 00:00:34,710 the San Francisco Bay Area California 6 00:00:40,170 --> 00:00:37,300 look out for the odd of earthquake here 7 00:00:43,049 --> 00:00:40,180 and there on this week's show get off to 8 00:00:45,990 --> 00:00:43,059 a slightly somber note with the reports 9 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:46,000 of the death of Paul Kurtz and James 10 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:49,690 gerund two giants in the skeptical field 11 00:00:55,380 --> 00:00:52,690 one from the United States and one in 12 00:00:57,660 --> 00:00:55,390 Australia so shortly I shall read the 13 00:01:02,130 --> 00:00:57,670 statements as posted at the Australian 14 00:01:05,330 --> 00:01:02,140 skeptics website and just as an aside in 15 00:01:09,090 --> 00:01:05,340 the year 2000 when I had attended the 16 00:01:11,130 --> 00:01:09,100 third skeptics convention the third 17 00:01:13,949 --> 00:01:11,140 world skeptics convention as it was cool 18 00:01:15,749 --> 00:01:13,959 I think as a nobody complete nobody some 19 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:15,759 guy off the street who bought my ticket 20 00:01:21,570 --> 00:01:18,250 and and went along during one of the 21 00:01:24,719 --> 00:01:21,580 luncheon intervals i sat at a table in a 22 00:01:27,419 --> 00:01:24,729 canteen or by myself eating a sandwich 23 00:01:30,210 --> 00:01:27,429 or something when Paul Kurtz called me 24 00:01:32,430 --> 00:01:30,220 over to his table just to talk to me now 25 00:01:35,190 --> 00:01:32,440 I wasn't sure who Paul Kurtz was of that 26 00:01:38,249 --> 00:01:35,200 stage but he saw me sitting by myself 27 00:01:39,979 --> 00:01:38,259 and just called me over to say hello who 28 00:01:44,270 --> 00:01:39,989 are you are you enjoying the convention 29 00:01:48,479 --> 00:01:44,280 charming fellow anyway it's a pity that 30 00:01:50,630 --> 00:01:48,489 the Giants are pioneering Giants have 31 00:01:52,919 --> 00:01:50,640 left the stage or some of them anyway 32 00:01:55,559 --> 00:01:52,929 after those tributes coming up shortly 33 00:01:57,870 --> 00:01:55,569 to Paul Kurtz and James Durand we hear 34 00:02:00,330 --> 00:01:57,880 from Adam van langenberg down in in 35 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:00,340 Melbourne who tells us about his 36 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:03,250 adventures visiting a psychic Expo the 37 00:02:09,300 --> 00:02:05,530 Cheltenham psychic Expo with adam van 38 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:09,310 langenberg and after his report I catch 39 00:02:15,540 --> 00:02:12,370 up with Adam to discuss the psychic Expo 40 00:02:18,210 --> 00:02:15,550 even further following that it's back to 41 00:02:19,130 --> 00:02:18,220 Las Vegas with Maynard Maynard catches 42 00:02:22,940 --> 00:02:19,140 up with day 43 00:02:25,820 --> 00:02:22,950 gorski dr. David Gorski and dr. Martha 44 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:25,830 Keller yes now these these interviews 45 00:02:29,090 --> 00:02:27,090 that may not have been doing from the 46 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:29,100 amazing meeting earlier in the year it's 47 00:02:33,740 --> 00:02:31,890 like a bottomless pit every time I think 48 00:02:35,510 --> 00:02:33,750 okay we're getting to the end of these 49 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:35,520 interviews I find more it's just 50 00:02:41,180 --> 00:02:39,090 ridiculous it's you have no idea it was 51 00:02:43,460 --> 00:02:41,190 just I think Maynard was really just a 52 00:02:44,540 --> 00:02:43,470 blur at tamp it was just incredible to 53 00:02:47,570 --> 00:02:44,550 see him running around interviewing 54 00:02:49,070 --> 00:02:47,580 everybody I think he was outside even 55 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:49,080 interviewing the local wildlife at one 56 00:02:55,670 --> 00:02:52,650 stage and to round off the show I catch 57 00:02:57,470 --> 00:02:55,680 up with a sponsor one of the generous 58 00:02:59,479 --> 00:02:57,480 sponsors to the skeptic zoned Glenn 59 00:03:04,210 --> 00:02:59,489 Jackson for a little chat here in a 60 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:04,220 coffee shop not far from San Francisco a 61 00:03:10,729 --> 00:03:06,690 little bit more for me at the end of the 62 00:03:32,790 --> 00:03:10,739 show but now sit back have some donut 63 00:03:38,580 --> 00:03:35,650 skeptic pioneer Paul Kurtz dead 64 00:03:44,110 --> 00:03:38,590 published on Friday October the 26th 65 00:03:46,540 --> 00:03:44,120 2012 and ww skeptics Comte you professor 66 00:03:49,060 --> 00:03:46,550 Paul Kurtz co-founder of the original 67 00:03:51,490 --> 00:03:49,070 skeptical organization the committee for 68 00:03:54,970 --> 00:03:51,500 scientific investigations of claims of 69 00:03:59,590 --> 00:03:54,980 the paranormal cycle died on october 20 70 00:04:01,720 --> 00:03:59,600 2012 he was 86 Kurtz was professor 71 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:01,730 emeritus of philosophy at the state 72 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:03,650 university of new york at buffalo and 73 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:06,770 over his long career published over 800 74 00:04:12,550 --> 00:04:09,290 articles or reviews and authored and 75 00:04:16,270 --> 00:04:12,560 edited over 50 books he has been called 76 00:04:17,710 --> 00:04:16,280 the father of secular humanism in 1969 77 00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:17,720 he founded the publishing house 78 00:04:22,830 --> 00:04:20,510 Prometheus books which specializes in 79 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:22,840 humanist and skeptical publications 80 00:04:28,930 --> 00:04:26,770 Kurtz visited Australia on two occasions 81 00:04:31,030 --> 00:04:28,940 during the first he attended the 82 00:04:33,940 --> 00:04:31,040 Australian skeptics convention in 83 00:04:37,510 --> 00:04:33,950 Melbourne in 1986 then visited an 84 00:04:39,580 --> 00:04:37,520 Outback site to view Halley's Comet his 85 00:04:42,310 --> 00:04:39,590 second visit was to jointly sponsor the 86 00:04:44,490 --> 00:04:42,320 two thousand World skeptics convention 87 00:04:47,860 --> 00:04:44,500 in Sydney where he presented a 88 00:04:50,050 --> 00:04:47,870 distinguished skeptic award to longtime 89 00:04:53,469 --> 00:04:50,060 editor of the skeptic the magazine from 90 00:04:55,750 --> 00:04:53,479 Australia Barry Williams in conversation 91 00:04:57,790 --> 00:04:55,760 with Barry Kurtz paid Australian 92 00:05:00,580 --> 00:04:57,800 skeptics the compliments that of all the 93 00:05:03,190 --> 00:05:00,590 sceptical functions he had attended this 94 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:03,200 was the one that most emphasized how 95 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:05,090 much enjoyment could be had from 96 00:05:10,570 --> 00:05:08,210 organized skepticism noting that he had 97 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:10,580 never hitherto heard so much laughter at 98 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:13,970 such a gathering while Kurtz period at 99 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:15,650 the helm of various skeptical and 100 00:05:20,140 --> 00:05:17,930 humanist groups was not without some 101 00:05:22,990 --> 00:05:20,150 differences of opinion in an interview 102 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:23,000 with the skeptic earlier this year ray 103 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:24,890 hyman another pioneer in the 104 00:05:29,620 --> 00:05:26,810 establishment of the skeptical movement 105 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:29,630 praised Kurtz organizational skills in 106 00:05:33,490 --> 00:05:31,210 setting up the original sigh cop 107 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:33,500 suggesting those skills were essential 108 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:35,930 to the birth of the movement for this 109 00:05:39,940 --> 00:05:38,090 role and his continued championing of 110 00:05:40,999 --> 00:05:39,950 the sceptical approach throughout his 111 00:05:43,339 --> 00:05:41,009 life he 112 00:05:50,980 --> 00:05:43,349 will be fondly and gratefully remembered 113 00:05:57,430 --> 00:05:54,850 James garand another skeptic pioneer 114 00:06:03,940 --> 00:05:57,440 dies published on Sunday October the 115 00:06:07,780 --> 00:06:03,950 28th 2012 at ww skeptics comte you James 116 00:06:11,790 --> 00:06:07,790 Jerry gerund co-founder of Australian 117 00:06:14,650 --> 00:06:11,800 skeptics died on October twelfth age 93 118 00:06:17,050 --> 00:06:14,660 Durand played a fundamental role in the 119 00:06:19,390 --> 00:06:17,060 setting up and the ongoing activities of 120 00:06:21,070 --> 00:06:19,400 Australian skeptics the initial meeting 121 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:21,080 to establish the skeptics were held in 122 00:06:27,130 --> 00:06:24,170 1980 at his home in hawthorne Melbourne 123 00:06:29,830 --> 00:06:27,140 with lawyer Mark Plummer who became the 124 00:06:33,010 --> 00:06:29,840 group's founding president plumber died 125 00:06:34,810 --> 00:06:33,020 last year Juran had previously spent six 126 00:06:39,370 --> 00:06:34,820 years working for the United Nations 127 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:39,380 agency icao in Montreal gerandan plumber 128 00:06:44,020 --> 00:06:41,210 had known each other as colleagues in 129 00:06:46,570 --> 00:06:44,030 the early 1970s when plumber was the 130 00:06:48,850 --> 00:06:46,580 industrial officer for the professional 131 00:06:50,830 --> 00:06:48,860 officers association the union 132 00:06:52,990 --> 00:06:50,840 representing scientists engineers and 133 00:06:55,450 --> 00:06:53,000 other professionals in the Commonwealth 134 00:06:57,580 --> 00:06:55,460 public service Angier and was an 135 00:07:00,610 --> 00:06:57,590 honorary editor-in-chief of the same 136 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:00,620 groups monthly journal in his day job 137 00:07:06,100 --> 00:07:03,170 Duran was the superintending Airways 138 00:07:08,410 --> 00:07:06,110 engineer for the Victorian and tasmanian 139 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:08,420 region in the development of civil 140 00:07:14,770 --> 00:07:11,450 aviation his son dr. Peter gerund 141 00:07:16,570 --> 00:07:14,780 reports that having decided to create 142 00:07:17,830 --> 00:07:16,580 the Australian skeptics inspired what 143 00:07:20,530 --> 00:07:17,840 they had learned from the u.s. 144 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:20,540 organization sigh cop James and Mark 145 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:23,290 approached Philip Adams who readily and 146 00:07:27,250 --> 00:07:25,250 enthusiastically supported the new 147 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:27,260 organization and created national 148 00:07:33,220 --> 00:07:30,410 publicity for it so much so that James 149 00:07:35,710 --> 00:07:33,230 and Mark were always ready to include 150 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:35,720 Philip as the third co-founder of 151 00:07:40,540 --> 00:07:38,450 Australian skeptics it was Philip Adams 152 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:40,550 who had the bright idea of enlisting 153 00:07:45,850 --> 00:07:43,850 Dick Smith sponsorship of a prize of ten 154 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:45,860 thousand dollars for the first person 155 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:47,930 who could convince a panel of scientific 156 00:07:53,470 --> 00:07:50,690 experts that their water divining would 157 00:07:56,380 --> 00:07:53,480 work this was the first stage in what is 158 00:07:58,870 --> 00:07:56,390 now the Australian skeptics $100,000 159 00:08:01,060 --> 00:07:58,880 challenge gerund was a founding 160 00:08:03,250 --> 00:08:01,070 Secretary of the skeptics and produced 161 00:08:04,780 --> 00:08:03,260 the skeptics newsletter and wrote many 162 00:08:07,860 --> 00:08:04,790 of its articles 163 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:07,870 from its first issue in 1981 until March 164 00:08:13,090 --> 00:08:10,970 1983 he was also active as national 165 00:08:15,790 --> 00:08:13,100 secretary of the Australian humanists 166 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:15,800 and in overlapping periods was the 167 00:08:19,450 --> 00:08:17,330 editor for the journals of the 168 00:08:22,060 --> 00:08:19,460 Australian humanists and the Australian 169 00:08:24,790 --> 00:08:22,070 rationalists his background in aviation 170 00:08:27,490 --> 00:08:24,800 led amongst other things to a series of 171 00:08:30,970 --> 00:08:27,500 important investigative articles on the 172 00:08:33,430 --> 00:08:30,980 famous valenta CH UFO case he will 173 00:08:35,650 --> 00:08:33,440 always be recognized as a key figure in 174 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:35,660 the establishment of the skeptics and 175 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:38,090 whose efforts and scientific approach 176 00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:40,370 allowed the group to grow both in size 177 00:09:03,210 --> 00:09:00,449 this is adam van langenberg from 178 00:09:05,879 --> 00:09:03,220 skeptics cool calm with a report on how 179 00:09:09,660 --> 00:09:05,889 I spent my weekend called Cheltenham 180 00:09:13,230 --> 00:09:09,670 psychic Expo the bad the ugly and the 181 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:13,240 really ugly on the weekend I was 182 00:09:17,759 --> 00:09:15,250 unexpectedly driving up the nepean 183 00:09:20,910 --> 00:09:17,769 highway in Cheltenham judo a surprise 184 00:09:23,369 --> 00:09:20,920 invitation to lunch by some friends at a 185 00:09:26,220 --> 00:09:23,379 very specific moment of my journey I 186 00:09:29,069 --> 00:09:26,230 happened by chance alone to turn my head 187 00:09:32,970 --> 00:09:29,079 to the right and noticed a sign proudly 188 00:09:35,220 --> 00:09:32,980 claiming psychic Expo clearly this was 189 00:09:36,869 --> 00:09:35,230 no coincidence in fact one of the 190 00:09:40,740 --> 00:09:36,879 vendors inside told me that to my face 191 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:40,750 at a five dollar entry I figured why not 192 00:09:44,939 --> 00:09:42,970 it would be a good way to kill a couple 193 00:09:47,009 --> 00:09:44,949 of hours on a Sunday afternoon and 194 00:09:49,379 --> 00:09:47,019 possibly learn a little bit more about 195 00:09:51,300 --> 00:09:49,389 what these chaps were up to the event 196 00:09:54,059 --> 00:09:51,310 was held in the Kingston City Hall and 197 00:09:56,910 --> 00:09:54,069 was not particularly busy there are 198 00:09:59,579 --> 00:09:56,920 around 15 vendors inside and possibly 30 199 00:10:01,139 --> 00:09:59,589 visitors more came in over the two hours 200 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:01,149 I spent there but I don't think they 201 00:10:05,370 --> 00:10:02,410 would have had more than a hundred or so 202 00:10:07,889 --> 00:10:05,380 altogether I've ranked them from what I 203 00:10:10,199 --> 00:10:07,899 think were the least to most harmful a 204 00:10:12,629 --> 00:10:10,209 couple were fairly innocent just a bit 205 00:10:15,090 --> 00:10:12,639 silly others angered me to the point of 206 00:10:16,740 --> 00:10:15,100 contacting the City Council and asking 207 00:10:18,660 --> 00:10:16,750 them why they allowed such people to 208 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:18,670 sell their wares in an official city 209 00:10:25,019 --> 00:10:23,170 building the bad a very nice lady was 210 00:10:27,660 --> 00:10:25,029 selling some very nice children's books 211 00:10:31,470 --> 00:10:27,670 full of positive messages such as I love 212 00:10:34,350 --> 00:10:31,480 family and I love breathing she told me 213 00:10:36,389 --> 00:10:34,360 how thinking I love my body could really 214 00:10:38,730 --> 00:10:36,399 help and I asked her if she meant that I 215 00:10:41,129 --> 00:10:38,740 could stop going to the gym she said no 216 00:10:43,049 --> 00:10:41,139 just that being positive about it meant 217 00:10:45,749 --> 00:10:43,059 that I would be more likely to take care 218 00:10:48,749 --> 00:10:45,759 of it she was definitely the least kooky 219 00:10:50,549 --> 00:10:48,759 of the bunch only slightly more kooky 220 00:10:53,850 --> 00:10:50,559 was the lady selling their Himalayan 221 00:10:56,249 --> 00:10:53,860 salt lamps apparently they emit negative 222 00:10:58,439 --> 00:10:56,259 ions which counteract to the harmful 223 00:11:01,590 --> 00:10:58,449 positive ions produced by electronic 224 00:11:03,809 --> 00:11:01,600 devices in your home I asked how big a 225 00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:03,819 lamp I would need to balance my 48 inch 226 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:06,910 TV and I was told to go by feeling not 227 00:11:11,079 --> 00:11:09,050 sighs she suggests 228 00:11:14,290 --> 00:11:11,089 at least one in each room especially 229 00:11:15,820 --> 00:11:14,300 children's bedrooms I commented on the 230 00:11:17,829 --> 00:11:15,830 irony of the fact that the lamps 231 00:11:20,259 --> 00:11:17,839 contained positive iron emitting light 232 00:11:22,060 --> 00:11:20,269 bulbs but she said they don't they just 233 00:11:25,329 --> 00:11:22,070 hate the salt which is what makes them 234 00:11:29,139 --> 00:11:25,339 work more bizarre with a heart-shaped 235 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:29,149 salt rocks labeled angel poo apparently 236 00:11:34,269 --> 00:11:31,130 angels defecate in the shape of a heart 237 00:11:36,490 --> 00:11:34,279 who knew ultimately I didn't find these 238 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:36,500 terribly bad the science behind her 239 00:11:41,130 --> 00:11:38,930 claims is non-existent but at least she 240 00:11:43,870 --> 00:11:41,140 wasn't making any real health claims 241 00:11:49,030 --> 00:11:43,880 also the lamps were quite pretty so I 242 00:11:50,199 --> 00:11:49,040 can't fold her aesthetics the ugly most 243 00:11:52,630 --> 00:11:50,209 of the tables were further 244 00:11:54,970 --> 00:11:52,640 fortune-tellers all of them had tarot 245 00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:54,980 cards but a couple also claimed to be 246 00:12:00,699 --> 00:11:56,800 able to communicate with the spirits 247 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:00,709 what are spirits I asked they're just 248 00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:03,050 dead people basically yeah they're dead 249 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:07,040 people gotcha one said she might be able 250 00:12:11,620 --> 00:12:09,290 to contact my father who is alive and 251 00:12:14,199 --> 00:12:11,630 well in hillsville but couldn't make any 252 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:14,209 guarantees there's still people so who 253 00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:16,610 knows what they're up to price has 254 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:18,800 varied from twenty to thirty dollars for 255 00:12:23,860 --> 00:12:21,050 15 minutes and up to 45 dollars for a 256 00:12:25,900 --> 00:12:23,870 half hour I decided to give the cheapest 257 00:12:28,750 --> 00:12:25,910 tarot reader ago and this is where I 258 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:28,760 learned my first lesson you get what you 259 00:12:33,490 --> 00:12:31,850 pay for I spent the reading looking for 260 00:12:35,530 --> 00:12:33,500 cold reading techniques and trying my 261 00:12:38,019 --> 00:12:35,540 best not to give away any information 262 00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:38,029 through my body language I needn't have 263 00:12:42,340 --> 00:12:39,529 bothered as she didn't look up from the 264 00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:42,350 cards once she had me shuffle and deal 265 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:44,959 out 11 cards onto her green velvet 266 00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:47,450 draped table which were then arranged in 267 00:12:53,439 --> 00:12:50,480 some sort of pattern i was told that I'm 268 00:12:55,150 --> 00:12:53,449 very organized which I'm not and that 269 00:12:58,060 --> 00:12:55,160 there would be a lot of retentions in my 270 00:13:00,189 --> 00:12:58,070 business I'm a teacher and I would rise 271 00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:00,199 to a leadership position within the next 272 00:13:05,860 --> 00:13:03,529 six months no chance in hell my 273 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:05,870 three-year-old daughter I have no 274 00:13:10,689 --> 00:13:08,690 children was very wise for her age and 275 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:10,699 that my wife and I don't see each other 276 00:13:15,910 --> 00:13:13,730 as much as we'd like to we both teachers 277 00:13:18,430 --> 00:13:15,920 and see each other too much at least 278 00:13:20,260 --> 00:13:18,440 according to my wife I did notice a 279 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:20,270 couple of cold reading techniques coming 280 00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:22,490 out I'm fairly convinced that she wasn't 281 00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:22,910 aware 282 00:13:27,190 --> 00:13:25,040 she was using them or at least wasn't 283 00:13:29,340 --> 00:13:27,200 doing anything deceitful she clearly 284 00:13:34,060 --> 00:13:29,350 seem to believe in what she was doing 285 00:13:38,260 --> 00:13:34,070 psychic you are very organized me no I'm 286 00:13:40,060 --> 00:13:38,270 not psychic well you could learn see 287 00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:40,070 what she did there she turned her miss 288 00:13:44,740 --> 00:13:42,800 into a hit of course I could learn to be 289 00:13:47,770 --> 00:13:44,750 more organized pretty much anybody could 290 00:13:50,860 --> 00:13:47,780 you're a ballerina no I'm not well you 291 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:50,870 could take lessons I asked her to tell 292 00:13:54,820 --> 00:13:52,490 me about my family and she dealt out 293 00:13:58,330 --> 00:13:54,830 some cards one of which was the two of 294 00:14:01,500 --> 00:13:58,340 pentacles psychic do you have two 295 00:14:04,300 --> 00:14:01,510 children me no I have one daughter 296 00:14:07,740 --> 00:14:04,310 psychic well it must mean your wife and 297 00:14:10,450 --> 00:14:07,750 daughter another miss turned into a hit 298 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:10,460 the third time I noticed it was when she 299 00:14:15,180 --> 00:14:12,770 turned a missing to a hit by telling me 300 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:15,190 that I was wrong and she was right 301 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:18,250 psychic he's your daughter an earth sign 302 00:14:25,540 --> 00:14:24,050 me no she's a Sagittarius psychic well 303 00:14:28,810 --> 00:14:25,550 she has a lot of earth sign 304 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:28,820 characteristics one of my students 305 00:14:32,110 --> 00:14:30,290 pointed out that she was essentially 306 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:32,120 saying that I couldn't trust astrology 307 00:14:37,330 --> 00:14:35,690 anybody could be anything twenty dollars 308 00:14:41,530 --> 00:14:37,340 later I looked around for something else 309 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:41,540 to do they're really ugly more 310 00:14:44,380 --> 00:14:42,650 disturbing the most was the 311 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:44,390 representative from a cult known as a 312 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:46,730 conquer who taught me a magic word that 313 00:14:51,790 --> 00:14:48,650 could be used to communicate with God 314 00:14:55,870 --> 00:14:51,800 and reveal my past lines the word is 315 00:14:57,970 --> 00:14:55,880 Hugh this will open your body or your 316 00:15:02,260 --> 00:14:57,980 soul they're essentially the same thing 317 00:15:03,790 --> 00:15:02,270 and then you chant amana he spent a lot 318 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:03,800 of time trying to give me free books and 319 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:05,570 pamphlets and encouraging me to attend 320 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:07,730 their fortnightly chanting sessions of 321 00:15:13,390 --> 00:15:10,370 course he was very friendly and open but 322 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:13,400 Colt recruiters generally tend to be not 323 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:16,010 so encouraging was the Scientology man I 324 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:18,170 spent around 20 minutes with him 325 00:15:22,690 --> 00:15:20,930 learning about them and what they do he 326 00:15:26,190 --> 00:15:22,700 showed me a booklet containing an 327 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:26,200 emotional scale known as a tone scale 328 00:15:34,180 --> 00:15:30,770 1.5 his anger 2.5 is boredom 3.5 is 329 00:15:36,220 --> 00:15:34,190 cheerful and so on apparently everybody 330 00:15:36,590 --> 00:15:36,230 has a base level which they will revert 331 00:15:39,350 --> 00:15:36,600 to 332 00:15:41,900 --> 00:15:39,360 a person whose base level is 1.5 will 333 00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:41,910 generally be angry all the time they may 334 00:15:45,710 --> 00:15:43,769 feel more positive emotions from time to 335 00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:45,720 time but will eventually default back to 336 00:15:50,809 --> 00:15:48,480 anger I took an e-meter stress test to 337 00:15:54,199 --> 00:15:50,819 see how I was doing and apparently I'm a 338 00:15:56,990 --> 00:15:54,209 3.45 quite cheerful this please me 339 00:15:58,639 --> 00:15:57,000 knowing the fact that I could make the 340 00:16:00,559 --> 00:15:58,649 little needle on the machine jump around 341 00:16:03,949 --> 00:16:00,569 by moving the handles was irrelevant I 342 00:16:06,290 --> 00:16:03,959 suppose what hurt my feelings was that 343 00:16:08,809 --> 00:16:06,300 he made absolutely no attempt to recruit 344 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:08,819 me he didn't tell me where they met he 345 00:16:13,069 --> 00:16:11,250 didn't try to sell me a book or DVD he 346 00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:13,079 didn't tell me how much better mine life 347 00:16:18,559 --> 00:16:15,839 would be if I join them am I not special 348 00:16:21,499 --> 00:16:18,569 enough could he sense my lack of riches 349 00:16:23,210 --> 00:16:21,509 was my slack-jawed yokel in pressure not 350 00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:23,220 good enough to mask my cunning intellect 351 00:16:29,150 --> 00:16:25,769 I felt like writing Tom Cruise a letter 352 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:29,160 to complain it was actually a lot of fun 353 00:16:32,689 --> 00:16:30,690 pretending to be completely ignorant 354 00:16:34,100 --> 00:16:32,699 because these people were falling over 355 00:16:36,559 --> 00:16:34,110 themselves to get their message out 356 00:16:39,290 --> 00:16:36,569 there no question was too stupid for 357 00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:39,300 them to answer I did feel very welcome 358 00:16:43,730 --> 00:16:42,000 there and I see that as a real danger it 359 00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:43,740 would be a very tempting place for 360 00:16:49,610 --> 00:16:46,310 somebody who was feeling lost or alone 361 00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:49,620 even worse than the cults in my opinion 362 00:16:54,530 --> 00:16:51,839 anyway with the alternative medicine 363 00:16:57,439 --> 00:16:54,540 peddlers one lady told me that she could 364 00:17:00,800 --> 00:16:57,449 reverse type 2 diabetes through diets 365 00:17:03,319 --> 00:17:00,810 and twice yearly detoxes she couldn't 366 00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:03,329 use the word cure Judah legal reasons 367 00:17:08,419 --> 00:17:05,520 but had cleverly discovered that saying 368 00:17:10,039 --> 00:17:08,429 reverse meant the same thing and didn't 369 00:17:13,490 --> 00:17:10,049 incur the wrath of the Diabetes 370 00:17:15,890 --> 00:17:13,500 Foundation the stall that really upset 371 00:17:18,350 --> 00:17:15,900 me was run by a lady who sold magical 372 00:17:20,809 --> 00:17:18,360 rocks no wait they weren't magical 373 00:17:22,970 --> 00:17:20,819 actually nothing at the entire expo was 374 00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:22,980 magical they were all one hundred 375 00:17:28,220 --> 00:17:26,400 percent scientific these scientific 376 00:17:31,850 --> 00:17:28,230 rocks screw in the earth and contained 377 00:17:34,130 --> 00:17:31,860 minerals we contain minerals therefore 378 00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:34,140 these rocks can help us by giving out 379 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:37,200 powerful emotions she had bowls full of 380 00:17:42,110 --> 00:17:39,690 beautiful little stones all shiny and 381 00:17:45,169 --> 00:17:42,120 polished and in varied hues and colors 382 00:17:49,340 --> 00:17:45,179 each one has a different effect such as 383 00:17:50,510 --> 00:17:49,350 tektite which is as follows tektite is a 384 00:17:52,490 --> 00:17:50,520 meteorite 385 00:17:55,190 --> 00:17:52,500 and is believed to enhance connection to 386 00:17:57,170 --> 00:17:55,200 other worlds it delves deep into the 387 00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:57,180 heart of a situation so you see the 388 00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:00,240 cause and effect it creates bio magnetic 389 00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:02,910 energy around the body signifies 390 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:05,910 spiritual change in development it can 391 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:07,890 be buried me your front door to guard 392 00:18:14,570 --> 00:18:11,250 against fire storm hostility and to 393 00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:14,580 attract abundance it is too powerful to 394 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:18,240 use on children and animals it reduces 395 00:18:24,170 --> 00:18:21,450 fever AIDS circulation and prevents 396 00:18:26,740 --> 00:18:24,180 transmission of diseases skin disorders 397 00:18:29,150 --> 00:18:26,750 and illnesses that drain strength 398 00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:29,160 worried about the spread of HIV in 399 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:30,720 Africa and the fact that the Catholic 400 00:18:34,790 --> 00:18:32,370 Church tells people that condoms are 401 00:18:37,730 --> 00:18:34,800 evil no problem just give them a small 402 00:18:40,460 --> 00:18:37,740 piece of tektite sick of replacing his 403 00:18:42,220 --> 00:18:40,470 smoke detector batteries just bury one 404 00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:42,230 by your front door and you'll be fine 405 00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:45,120 but that's not even the bad part she 406 00:18:49,820 --> 00:18:47,160 mentioned using one for her son who 407 00:18:51,890 --> 00:18:49,830 suffers from migraines one placed under 408 00:18:55,070 --> 00:18:51,900 his pillow at night fixes them right up 409 00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:55,080 I asked her what else her rocks could 410 00:19:02,630 --> 00:18:58,080 cure and she dropped to the Big C right 411 00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:02,640 on me cancer cancer is nothing more than 412 00:19:09,070 --> 00:19:05,760 repressed emotion apparently and what is 413 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:09,080 the cure for repressed emotion amethyst 414 00:19:13,730 --> 00:19:11,850 carried with you Warners jewelry or 415 00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:13,740 placed under your pillow at night time 416 00:19:19,310 --> 00:19:16,320 won't just prevent cancer but completely 417 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:19,320 cure it I agreed that repressing your 418 00:19:24,830 --> 00:19:21,570 emotions isn't healthy but it sure 419 00:19:26,810 --> 00:19:24,840 doesn't cause cancer as funny as I found 420 00:19:28,490 --> 00:19:26,820 some of the exhibitors such as one 421 00:19:30,140 --> 00:19:28,500 charging eighty dollars for a badly 422 00:19:32,570 --> 00:19:30,150 drawn picture of a guardian angel I 423 00:19:35,420 --> 00:19:32,580 can't find a single thing to laugh about 424 00:19:38,420 --> 00:19:35,430 here even one person taking her advice 425 00:19:40,130 --> 00:19:38,430 over a doctors would be one too many how 426 00:19:42,020 --> 00:19:40,140 would you feel if somebody close to you 427 00:19:45,580 --> 00:19:42,030 abandoned their medical treatment for a 428 00:19:48,410 --> 00:19:45,590 magic rock I do understand that desire 429 00:19:49,910 --> 00:19:48,420 cancer treatment is no picnic and I 430 00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:49,920 don't think we can blame people for 431 00:19:55,790 --> 00:19:53,280 wanting an easier less scary option what 432 00:19:57,950 --> 00:19:55,800 we can do is blame the people pushing 433 00:20:00,110 --> 00:19:57,960 these decisions they are taking 434 00:20:03,530 --> 00:20:00,120 advantage of people's fear and weakness 435 00:20:04,669 --> 00:20:03,540 and turning it into a profit I'm not 436 00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:04,679 going to call this person 437 00:20:09,710 --> 00:20:07,049 con artist because I think they believe 438 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:09,720 in what they are doing that still does 439 00:20:14,450 --> 00:20:11,730 not excuse the fact that an untrained 440 00:20:17,989 --> 00:20:14,460 individual is giving out very serious 441 00:20:20,810 --> 00:20:17,999 very flawed and very dangerous medical 442 00:20:23,180 --> 00:20:20,820 advice given that this event was held in 443 00:20:25,070 --> 00:20:23,190 the Kingston City Hall I've written to 444 00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:25,080 the council expressing my anger and 445 00:20:29,779 --> 00:20:27,360 concern finding people making 446 00:20:31,820 --> 00:20:29,789 unsupported medical claims and to cults 447 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:31,830 operating out of an official city 448 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:33,690 building is not the type of thing I 449 00:20:38,779 --> 00:20:36,690 expect I have no doubt they will respond 450 00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:38,789 with something along the lines of it is 451 00:20:41,930 --> 00:20:40,559 not up to us to monitor every stall 452 00:20:44,149 --> 00:20:41,940 holder and people have the right to 453 00:20:52,630 --> 00:20:44,159 express their opinions yadda yadda yadda 454 00:20:58,530 --> 00:20:55,150 and joining me now from melbourne is 455 00:21:01,060 --> 00:20:58,540 adam van langenberg himself hello Adam I 456 00:21:02,380 --> 00:21:01,070 Richard hey going I'm doing really well 457 00:21:04,540 --> 00:21:02,390 I'm having a great time here in 458 00:21:07,330 --> 00:21:04,550 California I'd I love visiting 459 00:21:10,180 --> 00:21:07,340 california from time to time but i was 460 00:21:13,170 --> 00:21:10,190 so interested to read and now just hear 461 00:21:15,580 --> 00:21:13,180 your report about the the 462 00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:15,590 mind-body-spirit type festival you go to 463 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:18,110 and my listeners know well that I love 464 00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:20,450 going to these mind-body things or mind 465 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:22,370 buddy wallet of course as we call them 466 00:21:27,010 --> 00:21:24,650 and I was really really tickled to know 467 00:21:29,710 --> 00:21:27,020 that that was your first experience at a 468 00:21:33,370 --> 00:21:29,720 mind-body wallet it must have been quite 469 00:21:35,170 --> 00:21:33,380 breathtaking in a way even though it was 470 00:21:37,690 --> 00:21:35,180 a little bit of a little bit of an 471 00:21:39,460 --> 00:21:37,700 eye-opener for me I honestly have no 472 00:21:41,590 --> 00:21:39,470 idea what to expect I didn't know if I 473 00:21:43,540 --> 00:21:41,600 was going to be going into a you know a 474 00:21:46,030 --> 00:21:43,550 massive tent full of hippies trying to 475 00:21:47,380 --> 00:21:46,040 breathe in sense into my face to 476 00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:47,390 anything like that or if it was just 477 00:21:51,970 --> 00:21:49,520 going to be a few you know depressed 478 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:51,980 looking tables set up around a largely 479 00:21:57,730 --> 00:21:55,250 empty Hall well I I've seen them both 480 00:22:00,130 --> 00:21:57,740 you know I've seen huge halls filled 481 00:22:02,410 --> 00:22:00,140 with this sort of thing on one end of 482 00:22:04,690 --> 00:22:02,420 the scale on the other end I have been 483 00:22:06,820 --> 00:22:04,700 in somewhere like a town hall with about 484 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:06,830 four tables set up and that's that can 485 00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:09,770 be quite depressing yeah it actually 486 00:22:15,220 --> 00:22:11,360 start to feel sorry for them a little 487 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:15,230 bit well I guess you take I guess you're 488 00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:17,570 doing in a kind of a way now do you 489 00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:19,520 think the people at the one you went to 490 00:22:22,510 --> 00:22:20,480 do you think they were looking 491 00:22:24,610 --> 00:22:22,520 entertained and optimistic or were they 492 00:22:26,260 --> 00:22:24,620 a little bit well a little bit 493 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:26,270 nonplussed by it or maybe a little bit 494 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:29,570 heartbroken it was a bit of a mix some 495 00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:30,890 people they were very you know very 496 00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:33,440 positive and happy and quite you're in 497 00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:35,120 some people just you know sitting back 498 00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:36,710 on the chairs waiting to be approached 499 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:40,370 they were probably about 20 tables also 500 00:22:44,620 --> 00:22:42,770 I think about half of them are our tarot 501 00:22:46,140 --> 00:22:44,630 readers and they were just sitting there 502 00:22:49,450 --> 00:22:46,150 waiting for people to come up and a 503 00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:49,460 purchase 30 minutes of their time yeah 504 00:22:52,660 --> 00:22:50,960 I've certainly seen that sort of thing 505 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:52,670 before tarot readers and then you get 506 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:54,410 the face readers and the astrologers and 507 00:22:59,470 --> 00:22:57,170 whatever but I find tarot reading quite 508 00:23:02,290 --> 00:22:59,480 interesting because it seems that the 509 00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:02,300 majority of psychics at psychic fairs in 510 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:05,120 the psychic room or whatever their tarot 511 00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:06,290 readers 512 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:08,000 think part of the reason for this is 513 00:23:16,150 --> 00:23:13,610 that it's one of the easier methods to 514 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:16,160 do simply because you've got all these 515 00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:17,810 helps in front of you but are these 516 00:23:21,850 --> 00:23:20,480 cards you put down a card and especially 517 00:23:24,010 --> 00:23:21,860 if they're picture cards if there's 518 00:23:26,250 --> 00:23:24,020 colorful Tarot with people doing things 519 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:26,260 on them you can just say a story 520 00:23:30,430 --> 00:23:28,610 straight away involving the pictures 521 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:30,440 you're seeing in front of you and of 522 00:23:36,150 --> 00:23:32,570 course the sitter will take from that 523 00:23:40,570 --> 00:23:36,160 what they will what they will I guess 524 00:23:42,550 --> 00:23:40,580 absolutely um i agree i am a few years 525 00:23:43,930 --> 00:23:42,560 ago you got myself a book on tarot 526 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:43,940 reading and i thought i'm gonna give 527 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:46,010 this a go i'm going to learn learn how 528 00:23:49,330 --> 00:23:47,330 to do it and see what it's like and I 529 00:23:52,060 --> 00:23:49,340 found it remarkably easy all you need is 530 00:23:53,980 --> 00:23:52,070 a little bit of an imagination and you 531 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:53,990 know a half-decent memory to sort of 532 00:23:58,740 --> 00:23:56,210 know what we should be talking about as 533 00:24:01,000 --> 00:23:58,750 a maths teacher I'm on the lookout for 534 00:24:02,470 --> 00:24:01,010 numerologists so I was hoping they'd be 535 00:24:04,060 --> 00:24:02,480 something there that would be taking the 536 00:24:05,410 --> 00:24:04,070 numbers of my birth name having and 537 00:24:07,270 --> 00:24:05,420 multiplying them together it's at least 538 00:24:09,190 --> 00:24:07,280 I could get involved in that but I 539 00:24:12,370 --> 00:24:09,200 haven't seen one of those yet 540 00:24:14,170 --> 00:24:12,380 unfortunately now i guess now you may 541 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:14,180 feel the same way i do I mean I mean 542 00:24:18,370 --> 00:24:16,010 going to these things for four years and 543 00:24:21,430 --> 00:24:18,380 using use there is a worthwhile endeavor 544 00:24:24,850 --> 00:24:21,440 for any skeptic to go along to these 545 00:24:27,580 --> 00:24:24,860 things and ask questions it I learnt so 546 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:27,590 much from doing lease I'm really glad 547 00:24:31,450 --> 00:24:30,050 really glad that I ended up um you know 548 00:24:34,570 --> 00:24:31,460 just spur of the moment just starting to 549 00:24:37,450 --> 00:24:34,580 go on do it and it was really 550 00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:37,460 interesting I think um I mention some of 551 00:24:43,150 --> 00:24:40,130 the things in there were quite funny and 552 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:43,160 some of the things in there were no I'd 553 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:45,410 upsetting at the same time um so was 554 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:47,810 interesting interesting for that also 555 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:49,970 for me as well you know dis asserting 556 00:24:53,470 --> 00:24:51,890 what things did make me annoyed and what 557 00:24:55,390 --> 00:24:53,480 things was I sort of willing to say well 558 00:24:57,790 --> 00:24:55,400 that's not you know that's not too bad I 559 00:25:00,030 --> 00:24:57,800 don't worry about that one too much well 560 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:00,040 I I think that you now would probably 561 00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:02,810 your appetite would be wetted to go and 562 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:04,880 go to the major one in Melbourne which 563 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:07,730 is ah once or twice EE I know it's twice 564 00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:09,410 a year in Sydney I think it maybe once 565 00:25:12,970 --> 00:25:10,910 or twice a year in Melbourne which is 566 00:25:14,140 --> 00:25:12,980 the festival of mind body spirit this is 567 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:14,150 the big way and one of the big 568 00:25:18,370 --> 00:25:16,250 convention halls and that will knock 569 00:25:20,530 --> 00:25:18,380 your socks off I mean you 570 00:25:23,070 --> 00:25:20,540 there are healers and tarot card readers 571 00:25:25,330 --> 00:25:23,080 and astrologers and New Age mystics and 572 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:25,340 all sorts of that's one of the places 573 00:25:31,780 --> 00:25:27,410 where i first came across the powerband 574 00:25:34,510 --> 00:25:31,790 type bands of course but strangely 575 00:25:36,490 --> 00:25:34,520 enough mixed in with all these bizarre 576 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:36,500 things you can often find some really 577 00:25:41,770 --> 00:25:38,930 good stuff like some wonderful type food 578 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:41,780 and hot sauces and genuinely good 579 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:43,490 products to help you relax or something 580 00:25:47,980 --> 00:25:44,930 like that so it's a really interesting 581 00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:47,990 adventure well there were some arm there 582 00:25:52,210 --> 00:25:49,310 was a clothing store there which I 583 00:25:54,820 --> 00:25:52,220 didn't mention just um you know tie-dyed 584 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:54,830 t-shirts and hemp trousers I guess that 585 00:26:00,700 --> 00:25:58,010 type of thing and the the salt lamps as 586 00:26:02,350 --> 00:26:00,710 I mentioned they were quite nice so I 587 00:26:04,510 --> 00:26:02,360 mean that was one thing I could actually 588 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:04,520 visualize or you could actually imagine 589 00:26:09,610 --> 00:26:07,010 buying just for the fact that I looked 590 00:26:11,260 --> 00:26:09,620 quite pretty well Adams good on you for 591 00:26:12,910 --> 00:26:11,270 going along thank you for the report 592 00:26:16,510 --> 00:26:12,920 which I found very interesting indeed 593 00:26:18,550 --> 00:26:16,520 and as ever I say to the people 594 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:18,560 listening to this if there is a mind 595 00:26:23,620 --> 00:26:21,290 body spirit knee you make an effort and 596 00:26:25,990 --> 00:26:23,630 go along and look at it this way the 597 00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:26,000 money you pay to get in is goes towards 598 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:27,440 your education of being a skeptic 599 00:26:31,270 --> 00:26:30,050 because unless you just want to sit in 600 00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:31,280 your chair and read what the computer 601 00:26:35,470 --> 00:26:33,200 says the best thing to do is to get out 602 00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:35,480 there and see it for yourself yeah 603 00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:38,510 absolutely and as I said it was a was a 604 00:26:44,260 --> 00:26:41,840 real eye-opener for me Thank You Adam 605 00:26:46,890 --> 00:26:44,270 very much and it's not long now not long 606 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:46,900 now before we meet up in person for the 607 00:26:51,220 --> 00:26:49,250 Australian skeptics national convention 608 00:26:55,570 --> 00:26:51,230 at the end of november looking forward 609 00:26:58,360 --> 00:26:55,580 to that yeah me too i it's very excited 610 00:27:13,159 --> 00:26:58,370 cannot wait for that adam battling and 611 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:16,950 hi this is Carrie papi i am ross Blocher 612 00:27:22,889 --> 00:27:19,450 okay Ross hey we're from a podcast 613 00:27:24,599 --> 00:27:22,899 called oh no roster kerry we find out 614 00:27:26,009 --> 00:27:24,609 what happens when you show up and ask 615 00:27:28,259 --> 00:27:26,019 questions we've hung out with the 616 00:27:30,810 --> 00:27:28,269 Cabalists the Mormons we've gone and 617 00:27:33,239 --> 00:27:30,820 gotten ear candle gone to the Sikhs we 618 00:27:34,889 --> 00:27:33,249 show up so you don't have to so find out 619 00:27:36,989 --> 00:27:34,899 where we're going next we'll even have 620 00:27:39,389 --> 00:27:36,999 special episodes where we have famous 621 00:27:41,399 --> 00:27:39,399 guests like Brian Dalton from mr. deity 622 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:41,409 you heard that awesome theme music he 623 00:27:47,580 --> 00:27:43,450 wrote that you should come visit us at 624 00:27:50,399 --> 00:27:47,590 Oh No podcast.com or facebook.com slash 625 00:27:54,479 --> 00:27:50,409 on rack what the hell's honor a cross Oh 626 00:28:00,660 --> 00:27:54,489 in RAC Oh Oh No Ross and Carrie that's 627 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:05,410 here's my not spooky action at a 628 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:12,230 ah well I've just been in the workshop 629 00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:13,890 all about dr. Google and all the 630 00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:15,510 wonderful information and misinformation 631 00:28:18,590 --> 00:28:17,370 you can find online and my the 632 00:28:22,010 --> 00:28:18,600 interesting bits of the talk was a 633 00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:22,020 doctor David Gorski hello and what is 634 00:28:27,049 --> 00:28:24,720 your field I'm a cancer surgeon I do 635 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:27,059 mostly breast cancer surgery and how 636 00:28:30,980 --> 00:28:28,290 many years have you been in the industry 637 00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:30,990 so to speak uh well i started the 638 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:34,320 practices in 1999 so before that there 639 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:37,250 was the years of training that going and 640 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:41,610 y1 ecology why that um i think cancer 641 00:28:46,610 --> 00:28:43,370 always just fascinated me i mean i do 642 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:46,620 research in cancer i do clinical 643 00:28:54,110 --> 00:28:49,610 practice and it's a it's a very 644 00:28:58,100 --> 00:28:54,120 difficult and unfortunately fascinating 645 00:29:00,680 --> 00:28:58,110 disease yeah I'm it's tragic yet there's 646 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:00,690 hope there and but all the time on the 647 00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:02,370 news I thought cancer be almost 648 00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:03,840 completely cured by the all the news 649 00:29:09,470 --> 00:29:05,520 reports I seems every other week it's 650 00:29:10,820 --> 00:29:09,480 cured well yes I I mean that's the 651 00:29:12,980 --> 00:29:10,830 problem that's what you told me I mean 652 00:29:15,380 --> 00:29:12,990 we actually do certain cancers we do 653 00:29:17,210 --> 00:29:15,390 very well with I mean breast cancer for 654 00:29:18,830 --> 00:29:17,220 instance is one of those however there 655 00:29:23,770 --> 00:29:18,840 are cancers we don't do very well with 656 00:29:28,010 --> 00:29:23,780 like pancreatic cancer esophageal cancer 657 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:28,020 so you know it's very it's a mixed you 658 00:29:31,659 --> 00:29:29,730 know cancer isn't just one disease it's 659 00:29:34,669 --> 00:29:31,669 like you know it's hundreds of diseases 660 00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:34,679 some of which we can actually cure some 661 00:29:39,770 --> 00:29:37,049 of which we really can't or we have a 662 00:29:41,419 --> 00:29:39,780 really hard time so as a doctor you must 663 00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:41,429 be faced with patients coming to you in 664 00:29:45,620 --> 00:29:43,710 the office and they have an unreasonable 665 00:29:47,450 --> 00:29:45,630 expectation or they've read about some 666 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:47,460 preliminary tests that look good which 667 00:29:50,030 --> 00:29:48,690 can't be applied to them does that 668 00:29:51,260 --> 00:29:50,040 happen often that must be kind of 669 00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:51,270 heartbreaking when these people come in 670 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:53,520 and think there's a cure I mean it 671 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:55,650 happens sometimes I mean one of the good 672 00:29:58,460 --> 00:29:56,730 things about being a breast cancer 673 00:30:01,490 --> 00:29:58,470 surgeon is most of the patients that I 674 00:30:05,060 --> 00:30:01,500 see are potentially curable so I you 675 00:30:06,890 --> 00:30:05,070 know they they will you know they 676 00:30:09,110 --> 00:30:06,900 wouldn't be coming to see me for the 677 00:30:10,789 --> 00:30:09,120 most part if surgery weren't a possible 678 00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,799 cure you know weren't possible to cure 679 00:30:14,450 --> 00:30:12,480 them or at least if they weren't at lees 680 00:30:16,340 --> 00:30:14,460 potential candidates and what is the 681 00:30:18,290 --> 00:30:16,350 most annoying thing on the internet as a 682 00:30:19,970 --> 00:30:18,300 as a professional trained for years in 683 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:19,980 your field you see lots of stuff on the 684 00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:21,290 net there was a few examples you put 685 00:30:25,690 --> 00:30:22,640 there what's the one that really makes 686 00:30:27,610 --> 00:30:25,700 you shake your fist at your screen oh I 687 00:30:30,190 --> 00:30:27,620 don't know if I can nail and if I 688 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:30,200 couldn't bear it down to just one it's 689 00:30:36,660 --> 00:30:33,890 like well maybe a genre I mean there's a 690 00:30:38,860 --> 00:30:36,670 lot of you know a lot of the cancer cure 691 00:30:41,470 --> 00:30:38,870 testimonials that sound you know that 692 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:41,480 suck in cancer patients are just really 693 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:44,330 frustrating because you know you know 694 00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:48,170 people believe them and you know and 695 00:30:53,890 --> 00:30:50,240 people get sucked in I mean for instance 696 00:30:56,590 --> 00:30:53,900 you know Robert Young is ridiculous as 697 00:30:58,780 --> 00:30:56,600 he is you know has gotten quite a few 698 00:31:00,850 --> 00:30:58,790 people to believe him you know like Kent 699 00:31:03,070 --> 00:31:00,860 Kim Kim tinkham that I taught you know 700 00:31:08,730 --> 00:31:03,080 who I talked about is one of them you 701 00:31:10,660 --> 00:31:08,740 know she's not the only one so it's 702 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:10,670 those are you know the really 703 00:31:16,450 --> 00:31:12,890 frustrating ones you know and it's hard 704 00:31:20,470 --> 00:31:16,460 to explain you know this stuff isn't 705 00:31:22,330 --> 00:31:20,480 working and a lot and a lot of times you 706 00:31:23,710 --> 00:31:22,340 know like like I said it was the surgery 707 00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:23,720 that actually cured someone and they 708 00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:25,310 blame they say oh the alternative 709 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:28,880 medicine cared me I mean for most breast 710 00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:30,610 cancer surgery is the primary treatment 711 00:31:34,900 --> 00:31:33,200 but the chemotherapy and the radiation 712 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:34,910 decreased the chance of it coming back 713 00:31:38,620 --> 00:31:37,490 right so you can you know in the days 714 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:38,630 before there was radiation and 715 00:31:45,250 --> 00:31:41,530 chemotherapy all we did was surgery but 716 00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:45,260 after you know after the yeah the 717 00:31:49,390 --> 00:31:47,600 chemotherapy and the radiation made our 718 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:49,400 surgery better you know may gave us 719 00:31:56,350 --> 00:31:52,850 better results so you can still be cured 720 00:31:57,820 --> 00:31:56,360 with just surgery in many cases do you 721 00:31:59,920 --> 00:31:57,830 think it's a kind of a strange result 722 00:32:02,350 --> 00:31:59,930 that people will discount all your years 723 00:32:04,030 --> 00:32:02,360 of training and experience because of 724 00:32:05,170 --> 00:32:04,040 your training and experience because 725 00:32:08,620 --> 00:32:05,180 you're part of the medical industrial 726 00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:08,630 complex so so that you know you'll get 727 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:10,880 people that mistrust doctors for some 728 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:13,010 reason because they're doctors and then 729 00:32:15,580 --> 00:32:14,210 they'll go on a website from someone 730 00:32:17,290 --> 00:32:15,590 who's not a doctor and trust them 731 00:32:20,950 --> 00:32:17,300 because they're not a doctor isn't that 732 00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:20,960 kind of odd well if there is a lot of 733 00:32:29,140 --> 00:32:24,110 distrust of doctors there has been for a 734 00:32:31,210 --> 00:32:29,150 long time but it's well I you know I 735 00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:31,220 can't explain it there's always been 736 00:32:35,580 --> 00:32:32,880 kind of a 737 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:35,590 you know who thinks thought of this was 738 00:32:42,180 --> 00:32:36,970 a dentist's maybe trying to get the 739 00:32:44,580 --> 00:32:42,190 round back I don't know about that sure 740 00:32:48,289 --> 00:32:44,590 we started it I mean it there of all 741 00:32:50,610 --> 00:32:48,299 wait there have always been you know 742 00:32:53,250 --> 00:32:50,620 what quacks or whatever you want to call 743 00:32:55,740 --> 00:32:53,260 them but you know is scientific medicine 744 00:32:58,680 --> 00:32:55,750 is actually a fairly relative you know a 745 00:33:02,039 --> 00:32:58,690 fairly new development I mean it's 746 00:33:05,340 --> 00:33:02,049 really only been the last maybe hundred 747 00:33:07,950 --> 00:33:05,350 years 150 years at the most that you 748 00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:07,960 know science has really been I made you 749 00:33:15,419 --> 00:33:11,470 know the major basis of medicine so you 750 00:33:16,980 --> 00:33:15,429 know it's you know it we're still it 751 00:33:18,899 --> 00:33:16,990 kinda it's we're still kind of in our 752 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:18,909 infancy if you look at the history of 753 00:33:23,970 --> 00:33:21,850 medicine before that you know I so doing 754 00:33:25,830 --> 00:33:23,980 you talk there the spilling of disease 755 00:33:27,180 --> 00:33:25,840 in a way I have never seen it's built 756 00:33:29,100 --> 00:33:27,190 before and you said if it's spoke like 757 00:33:31,740 --> 00:33:29,110 that on a website run away could you 758 00:33:33,930 --> 00:33:31,750 explain that it's a pretty good 759 00:33:35,460 --> 00:33:33,940 indication of quackery if you see it 760 00:33:37,620 --> 00:33:35,470 because they will stun they will say 761 00:33:40,770 --> 00:33:37,630 that you don't have disease you have dis 762 00:33:41,909 --> 00:33:40,780 ease or and apparently someone came up 763 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:41,919 to me and I didn't even know this 764 00:33:44,850 --> 00:33:43,330 someone came up to me afterward and said 765 00:33:49,260 --> 00:33:44,860 that it originated with christian 766 00:33:51,930 --> 00:33:49,270 science but I've I've seen it in way 767 00:33:53,820 --> 00:33:51,940 more you know quack websites and just 768 00:33:55,289 --> 00:33:53,830 Christian Science in fact I don't even 769 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:55,299 know if I ever saw it in christian 770 00:33:59,399 --> 00:33:57,370 science so would that be the one big red 771 00:34:01,140 --> 00:33:59,409 flag we can take away from it is if you 772 00:34:03,450 --> 00:34:01,150 see feces you know is there something 773 00:34:05,159 --> 00:34:03,460 else pretty reliable why yes they're not 774 00:34:07,409 --> 00:34:05,169 spelling the word that you've got wrong 775 00:34:08,820 --> 00:34:07,419 yeah even trouble that ones are pretty 776 00:34:10,859 --> 00:34:08,830 good yeah that one's a print that one's 777 00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:10,869 a pretty good indication but it's not as 778 00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:12,730 common as a lot of the other ones so 779 00:34:16,260 --> 00:34:14,320 it's not you know you don't know you 780 00:34:18,030 --> 00:34:16,270 frequently don't see it you know and of 781 00:34:20,099 --> 00:34:18,040 course um is there anything you get in 782 00:34:21,659 --> 00:34:20,109 to do like taking more vitamins you 783 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:21,669 should observe any whooo you are 784 00:34:25,409 --> 00:34:23,530 susceptible to the spot or your training 785 00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:25,419 do you not walk under a ladder do you 786 00:34:30,570 --> 00:34:27,520 don't like it black cat books in front 787 00:34:32,609 --> 00:34:30,580 of you I mean no everybody's everybody's 788 00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:32,619 human and you can't think of you know I 789 00:34:39,149 --> 00:34:35,169 I don't know that there is specifically 790 00:34:41,220 --> 00:34:39,159 although I suspect like saying that 791 00:34:42,300 --> 00:34:41,230 every saying something optimistic like 792 00:34:43,950 --> 00:34:42,310 everything's going to be okay 793 00:34:46,700 --> 00:34:43,960 automatically makes me think I should 794 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:46,710 knock on wood or something you know 795 00:34:50,460 --> 00:34:48,970 look I'll go do some knocking on wood it 796 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:50,470 was great to us that your talk and I've 797 00:34:54,390 --> 00:34:52,330 certainly learned a few websites not to 798 00:34:59,580 --> 00:34:54,400 go to all right thank you very much it's 799 00:35:00,720 --> 00:34:59,590 good talking you know I look both well I 800 00:35:02,370 --> 00:35:00,730 want to know what you thought of the 801 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:02,380 talk in there about dr. google actually 802 00:35:05,780 --> 00:35:04,210 I was in the talk on the other side so I 803 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:05,790 missed this one it was on grassroots 804 00:35:10,050 --> 00:35:08,530 skepticism so how to grow the grassroots 805 00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:10,060 and so I think I'm starting your own 806 00:35:14,010 --> 00:35:11,440 movement in you area we actually just 807 00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:14,020 started a couple in Florida so it was 808 00:35:18,210 --> 00:35:15,910 more how to how to build our groups make 809 00:35:19,770 --> 00:35:18,220 them bigger reach more people so when 810 00:35:21,930 --> 00:35:19,780 you come to Tam something like this is 811 00:35:23,220 --> 00:35:21,940 it easier to get an idea of what's going 812 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:23,230 on because you're suddenly talking to a 813 00:35:28,140 --> 00:35:24,490 whole bunch of like-minded people I 814 00:35:30,690 --> 00:35:28,150 guess oh yeah no that's perfect actually 815 00:35:34,250 --> 00:35:30,700 this is my wife I believe you're 816 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:34,260 starting at grassroots movement Maynard 817 00:35:37,500 --> 00:35:36,250 that's what i was saying i didn't 818 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:37,510 recognize him when he walked by and then 819 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:39,490 he started talking i was like wow so 820 00:35:42,570 --> 00:35:40,570 what did you learn from the doctor 821 00:35:44,190 --> 00:35:42,580 google talk um it was a really good talk 822 00:35:46,410 --> 00:35:44,200 about learning the difference between 823 00:35:49,260 --> 00:35:46,420 what's a fake website what's a real 824 00:35:50,970 --> 00:35:49,270 website in terms of medical claims hmm 825 00:35:52,410 --> 00:35:50,980 and did you know anything you didn't 826 00:35:54,330 --> 00:35:52,420 number for you went in or just clarify 827 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:54,340 stuff for you I think it more clarified 828 00:35:57,810 --> 00:35:55,690 stuff because that's the field that I'm 829 00:35:59,460 --> 00:35:57,820 in so it was it was just good to hear 830 00:36:01,890 --> 00:35:59,470 you know a different aspect from a human 831 00:36:03,630 --> 00:36:01,900 perspective i'm on the animal side and 832 00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:03,640 what's the word that annoys you the most 833 00:36:09,290 --> 00:36:06,480 is it I me up a thief or animals 834 00:36:13,740 --> 00:36:09,300 anything that's for animals homeopathy 835 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:13,750 chiropractic energy healing acupuncture 836 00:36:17,610 --> 00:36:16,330 what about psychic readings of animals i 837 00:36:20,130 --> 00:36:17,620 love it the people that can do psychic 838 00:36:22,050 --> 00:36:20,140 readings of cats i also won't hurt the 839 00:36:24,780 --> 00:36:22,060 cash that's true that's not a health 840 00:36:26,670 --> 00:36:24,790 health risk you know so yeah that's true 841 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:26,680 i guess yeah yeah so you're a 842 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:28,930 veterinarian yes all right so have you 843 00:36:33,570 --> 00:36:31,210 ever had to like stop someone from doing 844 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:33,580 any strange practices any devine oh yes 845 00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:35,650 yeah I have clients sometimes that will 846 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:38,320 ask me they've received a treatment from 847 00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:39,970 another vet and they'll ask me do you 848 00:36:43,530 --> 00:36:41,710 think this works and i'll tell them 849 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:43,540 straight out no i don't think it works 850 00:36:46,660 --> 00:36:44,690 and i'll tell them why 851 00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:46,670 no and what is the really obvious one 852 00:36:51,370 --> 00:36:47,839 the really expensive monthly you see the 853 00:36:53,890 --> 00:36:51,380 most acupuncture and but as far as i 854 00:36:56,380 --> 00:36:53,900 know i've never even seen meridians on a 855 00:36:59,290 --> 00:36:56,390 cab oh you will on Sunday when I present 856 00:37:01,270 --> 00:36:59,300 a paper on it Wow okay and also cats are 857 00:37:02,890 --> 00:37:01,280 known for their putting up with putting 858 00:37:04,180 --> 00:37:02,900 up with it ness I mean you stick a pin 859 00:37:07,390 --> 00:37:04,190 in the cat it's not going to be happy 860 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:07,400 you'd be surprised really yeah yeah I've 861 00:37:23,340 --> 00:37:09,650 got I've got pictures Wow okay well 862 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:26,590 hi this is brian dunning great news from 863 00:37:31,870 --> 00:37:28,850 the sceptile podcast the fourth book 864 00:37:34,270 --> 00:37:31,880 astronauts aliens and eight men is now 865 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:34,280 available this book gives you the tools 866 00:37:39,460 --> 00:37:36,770 to sort the solid from the silly and 867 00:37:41,859 --> 00:37:39,470 answer such questions as did stalin 868 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:41,869 actually try to create an army of half 869 00:37:47,590 --> 00:37:44,930 ape half man super soldiers or the 870 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:47,600 Apollo astronauts followed by a UFO all 871 00:37:53,230 --> 00:37:50,450 the way to the moon was Mozart really 872 00:37:55,900 --> 00:37:53,240 murdered by Antonio Salieri is there 873 00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:55,910 such a thing as ball lightning can 874 00:38:00,910 --> 00:37:57,920 martial arts masters kill without 875 00:38:03,849 --> 00:38:00,920 touching isn't alien buried in the local 876 00:38:07,540 --> 00:38:03,859 cemetery in Aurora Texas just search 877 00:38:10,420 --> 00:38:07,550 amazon.com or come to skeptic on / books 878 00:38:12,609 --> 00:38:10,430 to get your paperback copy today it's 879 00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:12,619 also available for your kindle nook or 880 00:38:19,690 --> 00:38:16,730 ibooks for just five dollars astronauts 881 00:38:21,550 --> 00:38:19,700 aliens and ape men it's the perfect gift 882 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:21,560 for that woo woo friend of yours who 883 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:25,850 doesn't listen to podcasts also 884 00:38:31,150 --> 00:38:28,970 I see all big and small I see everything 885 00:38:34,660 --> 00:38:31,160 you do and I'm going to make sure 886 00:38:36,700 --> 00:38:34,670 everyone sees to the secret of the Gypsy 887 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:36,710 queen the musical fairy tale from 888 00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:39,530 sceptile episode number 300 is now 889 00:38:44,380 --> 00:38:41,510 available as a fully illustrated 890 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:44,390 children's paperback artwork by jesse 891 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:46,610 horn it's a tale of a little girl who 892 00:38:50,530 --> 00:38:48,650 saves her kingdom when she is the only 893 00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:50,540 one who doesn't buy into the pop 894 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:52,730 pseudoscience of the day it's a 895 00:38:57,820 --> 00:38:54,890 wonderful positive story that teaches 896 00:38:59,500 --> 00:38:57,830 children the value of skepticism lots of 897 00:39:01,510 --> 00:38:59,510 fun to read and look at the pictures 898 00:39:03,790 --> 00:39:01,520 while listening to the musical the 899 00:39:07,870 --> 00:39:03,800 secret of the Gypsy queen is also 900 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:07,880 available at sceptile calm / books every 901 00:39:13,330 --> 00:39:10,370 library should have one this is brian 902 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:13,340 dunning from sceptile calm and remember 903 00:39:29,590 --> 00:39:16,850 you should always be skeptical because 904 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:29,600 the inverse casa con alex you often hear 905 00:39:33,910 --> 00:39:31,850 me saying how great it is that when we 906 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:33,920 get people listeners like yourselves 907 00:39:38,290 --> 00:39:36,770 helping to further the aims of the 908 00:39:40,330 --> 00:39:38,300 skeptics own whether it's getting mad 909 00:39:41,830 --> 00:39:40,340 men art around the country or overseas 910 00:39:43,270 --> 00:39:41,840 or even helping out with various 911 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:43,280 projects like their vaccinations 912 00:39:47,650 --> 00:39:45,050 chronicles been in your documentary I'm 913 00:39:49,150 --> 00:39:47,660 working on and I'm delighted to meet one 914 00:39:51,850 --> 00:39:49,160 of the people who've been very generous 915 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:51,860 i'm here in orinda in california and a 916 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:53,930 little coffee shop as you can hear in 917 00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:55,850 the background to meet up with Glen 918 00:40:00,610 --> 00:39:58,490 Jackson hello Glenn hello Richard now 919 00:40:02,470 --> 00:40:00,620 I'm so delighted to meet up with you 920 00:40:04,540 --> 00:40:02,480 they've got this very small window of 921 00:40:06,130 --> 00:40:04,550 opportunity because you're off to the UK 922 00:40:08,830 --> 00:40:06,140 this afternoon I just flew in yesterday 923 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:08,840 so it's very good that we can meet up 924 00:40:13,570 --> 00:40:11,570 but it's nice to see you too thank you 925 00:40:15,250 --> 00:40:13,580 personally for chipping in and helping 926 00:40:17,590 --> 00:40:15,260 out with the the very skeptic zone 927 00:40:20,020 --> 00:40:17,600 endeavors you're entirely welcome thank 928 00:40:22,330 --> 00:40:20,030 you for bringing the magazine I look 929 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:22,340 forward to becoming a subscriber is the 930 00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:24,170 latest episode of the skeptic and I 931 00:40:30,010 --> 00:40:25,730 think there are two articles in there by 932 00:40:32,110 --> 00:40:30,020 me so or torture torture for you and I'm 933 00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:32,120 so glad to know that you get a lot out 934 00:40:36,859 --> 00:40:34,160 of out of podcasts in general would you 935 00:40:41,539 --> 00:40:36,869 say I get a lot of a podcast 936 00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:41,549 we have 50 podcasts that I riesen to 937 00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:43,710 them when I work out and I'm just about 938 00:40:47,299 --> 00:40:45,569 to do that as you can see from my attire 939 00:40:49,009 --> 00:40:47,309 yeah sure you can see that on there on 940 00:40:51,259 --> 00:40:49,019 the podcast you look you look like 941 00:40:52,819 --> 00:40:51,269 you're just about to run run up a hill I 942 00:40:55,220 --> 00:40:52,829 am about to run up a hill and I do 943 00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:55,230 listen to podcasts when I do that or or 944 00:40:58,640 --> 00:40:56,910 as I lay in bed at night and wake up in 945 00:41:01,489 --> 00:40:58,650 the middle of the night and listen to 946 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:01,499 the latest of the skeptic zone yes hey 947 00:41:04,789 --> 00:41:03,210 well that's that's very good to know 948 00:41:07,099 --> 00:41:04,799 I'll bear that in mind next time I'm 949 00:41:09,799 --> 00:41:07,109 putting all this show together next year 950 00:41:12,319 --> 00:41:09,809 together and it was so great because of 951 00:41:14,329 --> 00:41:12,329 you to help your help of course our 952 00:41:15,859 --> 00:41:14,339 listeners have been enjoying reports 953 00:41:18,170 --> 00:41:15,869 from the amazing meeting with Maynard 954 00:41:21,170 --> 00:41:18,180 for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks 955 00:41:22,609 --> 00:41:21,180 now and he wouldn't be there if it 956 00:41:24,769 --> 00:41:22,619 wasn't for the support of people like 957 00:41:26,660 --> 00:41:24,779 you so I hope you get an extra good 958 00:41:28,130 --> 00:41:26,670 feeling when you listen when you thank 959 00:41:30,259 --> 00:41:28,140 you for commenting on it I look forward 960 00:41:31,220 --> 00:41:30,269 to seeing them beating him i would do 961 00:41:32,569 --> 00:41:31,230 want to go to one of the amazing 962 00:41:34,940 --> 00:41:32,579 meetings i haven't been yet as i 963 00:41:37,299 --> 00:41:34,950 mentioned to you and perhaps see we can 964 00:41:39,789 --> 00:41:37,309 get them there again next year oh boy 965 00:41:43,009 --> 00:41:39,799 that's an expectation we don't know 966 00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:43,019 establish her well it would be hard to 967 00:41:47,630 --> 00:41:45,119 imagine at am now an amazing meeting 968 00:41:48,769 --> 00:41:47,640 without may not running around you 969 00:41:51,950 --> 00:41:48,779 should have seen him he had a gold 970 00:41:53,630 --> 00:41:51,960 jacket on and he was in everybody's face 971 00:41:55,999 --> 00:41:53,640 but but the reports we've been getting 972 00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:56,009 back and and quite frankly for me it's 973 00:42:00,559 --> 00:41:57,650 it's been a wonderful thing because 974 00:42:02,359 --> 00:42:00,569 sometimes it's a little bit of a 975 00:42:04,579 --> 00:42:02,369 struggle to find content week after week 976 00:42:07,789 --> 00:42:04,589 after week after week but having someone 977 00:42:09,859 --> 00:42:07,799 like Maynard just go nuts for four or 978 00:42:12,170 --> 00:42:09,869 five days in Las Vegas means as there's 979 00:42:14,509 --> 00:42:12,180 plenty of content but I'm I hope you 980 00:42:16,009 --> 00:42:14,519 don't find the accents to baffling no 981 00:42:18,140 --> 00:42:16,019 not at all what I really enjoyed last 982 00:42:21,019 --> 00:42:18,150 just I think in your most recent winter 983 00:42:22,430 --> 00:42:21,029 maybe the second to last podcast he was 984 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:22,440 interviewing a woman I think from 985 00:42:27,529 --> 00:42:24,450 Virginia the last one we did yet a last 986 00:42:29,630 --> 00:42:27,539 word ed it was so funny because she was 987 00:42:33,499 --> 00:42:29,640 really said he was really surprised that 988 00:42:35,839 --> 00:42:33,509 he that she knew his name Andy and she 989 00:42:39,420 --> 00:42:35,849 said how is that you knew me and so you 990 00:42:44,710 --> 00:42:41,890 blinding glimpse of the obvious is that 991 00:42:46,620 --> 00:42:44,720 yeah but I do I would love to meet him 992 00:42:49,450 --> 00:42:46,630 sometime he's a real charming 993 00:42:52,780 --> 00:42:49,460 enthusiastic person enthusiastic is just 994 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:52,790 the word I think it really is well Glenn 995 00:42:57,550 --> 00:42:56,090 it again I from from the bottom my heart 996 00:42:59,890 --> 00:42:57,560 thank you for helping with the skeptic 997 00:43:04,030 --> 00:42:59,900 zone it's I loved doing the show but of 998 00:43:06,790 --> 00:43:04,040 course it's it certainly means a lot to 999 00:43:10,180 --> 00:43:06,800 me to know that the the show means more 1000 00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:10,190 to people it does I I said I get 50 or 1001 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:12,560 more podcasts there's really a handful 1002 00:43:17,020 --> 00:43:14,810 of which i never ever miss and yours is 1003 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:17,030 one of them so you've got a really good 1004 00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:19,970 supporter here in California really 1005 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:22,400 appreciate it from all the way here in 1006 00:43:27,220 --> 00:43:25,010 beautiful downtown orinda as we sip our 1007 00:43:29,110 --> 00:43:27,230 coffee to help me get over jet lag Glenn 1008 00:43:30,910 --> 00:43:29,120 Jackson it thank you very much you're 1009 00:43:42,820 --> 00:43:30,920 welcome Richard thank you for Roberto 1010 00:43:44,530 --> 00:43:42,830 senior this is ben Radford I'm deputy 1011 00:43:46,510 --> 00:43:44,540 editor of skeptical inquirer science 1012 00:43:48,910 --> 00:43:46,520 magazine author of six books including 1013 00:44:04,160 --> 00:43:48,920 tracking chupacabra and you can find out 1014 00:44:08,670 --> 00:44:06,480 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1015 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:08,680 zone as we reflect upon the passing of 1016 00:44:14,970 --> 00:44:11,970 two of the pioneers in the skeptical 1017 00:44:17,540 --> 00:44:14,980 organization around the world but what a 1018 00:44:21,870 --> 00:44:17,550 legacy what a legacy both men leave us 1019 00:44:24,540 --> 00:44:21,880 now you can meet other wonderful people 1020 00:44:27,780 --> 00:44:24,550 from The Skeptical world including James 1021 00:44:29,849 --> 00:44:27,790 Randi DJ Grothe rebecca watson list goes 1022 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:29,859 on and on tickets are still available 1023 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:32,290 not many for the Australian skeptics 1024 00:44:39,599 --> 00:44:34,930 national convention in Melbourne at the 1025 00:44:43,260 --> 00:44:39,609 end of november don't delay visit www VV 1026 00:44:45,569 --> 00:44:43,270 skeptics wordpress com snap up those 1027 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:45,579 last few tickets and I will see you 1028 00:44:50,069 --> 00:44:47,890 there along with dr. Reggie and dr. 1029 00:44:53,790 --> 00:44:50,079 Chrissy wilson and lynn kelly and adam 1030 00:44:55,620 --> 00:44:53,800 van langenberg and many other people now 1031 00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:55,630 on next week's show I catch up with our 1032 00:44:59,089 --> 00:44:57,760 favorite podcast of Brian Dunning who 1033 00:45:04,109 --> 00:44:59,099 will tell us about his interesting 1034 00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:04,119 venture to expand skep tied to expand 1035 00:45:08,790 --> 00:45:06,880 reach of sceptile his podcast can't wait 1036 00:45:11,790 --> 00:45:08,800 for that and I might even end up in his 1037 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:11,800 hot tub I might do that that sounds like 1038 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:14,530 a good idea to me but until next week's 1039 00:45:21,089 --> 00:45:17,050 show from the San Francisco Bay Area on 1040 00:45:27,569 --> 00:45:21,099 a beautifully warm sunny day this is 1041 00:45:30,010 --> 00:45:27,579 Richard Saunders signing off you've been 1042 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:30,020 listening to the skeptic zone 1043 00:45:37,870 --> 00:45:34,850 visit our website at www skeptics on TV